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Sometimes I read a fic that stays with me, that I can't stop thinking about. It gets its hooks in me.
But if there's something significant about it that seems flawed (characterisation, plot, language use, whatever), I hesitate to rec it.
I read and enjoy a lot of fics. but usually only rec fics that are most compelling to me personally.
When I find a fic compelling enough to want to rec it, and it also has certain kinds of flaws, I usually don't rec.
@lookitmychicken yeah sometimes one aspect of a fic is really compelling but the fic as whole doesn't hold together for me
But also now I'm so curious what types of flaws you mean?
Hmm a few things off the top of my head:
- promising fic with weak ending, maybe it fizzles out or ends abruptly or seems unresolved in a way that doesn't seem intentional
- frequent typos or misuse of words (you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means)
- good story but some of the canon characters seem more like original characters wearing the canon character's clothes (I love a good OC but only if it's clear that they're an OC)
- good story but the sex and/or kink and/or understanding of consent is ... not good (I'm fine with bad sex, bad kink, dubious consent, etc. as long as it seems the author *knows* it's bad or dubious, and isn't just writing it that way out of ignorance)
- I love everything about the story except that the plot hinges on characters not communicating with each other for stupid reasons (this often gets a pass but not always)
@lookitmychicken@blorbo.social- my reluctance to rec increases every time a character lets out a breath they didn't know they were holding
- also every time someone gives someone else a shovel talk
- I know jealousy can be a big thing in monogamous relationships but I'm not comfortable with it being a major part of the plot. A little bit is fine
Huh I have more Opinions than I thought about Flaws That Make Me Hesitant to Rec
@lookitmychicken Thank you! A lot of these bother me too, though I'm not sure how much they effective my willingness to rec, but then I don't rec nearly as much as you do
@Forestofglory @lookitmychicken most of these definitely bother me as well! which is kinda interesting for the three of us to spontaneously agree on bc theyre all quite prevalent if you eg. sort by kudus so you definitely get the impression the average reader isn’t too bothered (or even actively seeks some of these out)
i guess it does make sense that “my friends/communities taste is more like mine than the average persons” being one of the benefits of reccing when it comes to these kinds of caveats as well!
@Satsuma @lookitmychicken There are some very well kudosed fics out there where I just find the prose unbearable, so clearly taste is very subjective!
@Forestofglory @Satsuma
There are so many different audiences who love different things, and for sure there are a lot of highly kudosed fics that I don't see the appeal of at all.
It can be a challenge when I'm getting into a new fandom & trying to find good stuff to read solely through sorting by kudos.
When I've been in a fandom for a while, I find the writers & readers whose tastes match mine, and mostly ignore kudos numbers.
In my most recently adopted fandom, I'm reading a lot of, uh.
@lookitmychicken @Forestofglory Kudos are not an unambiguous indicator. I generally give kudos if I found the fic good enough to finish it, = not a very high bar. Usually the kudos to hits ratio and the bookmarks to kudos ratio are good indicators, with some outliers where an author has a faithful and imo biased fan base. But I agree, the best finds are on rec lists by people with a similar taste, bookmarks by authors one likes etc.
@thalassa @Forestofglory
True that. I kudos everything I finish reading (& some that I don't finish). Even if I don't love a fic, I love that someone wrote it and put it out there for others to see.
@Satsuma @Forestofglory
I know I follow & am followed by people who decidedly don't like some of the things that I love, and vice versa.
But generally, since we each self-select our communities, we're more likely to share likes & dislikes than a randomly generated set of fic readers. 
@lookitmychicken @Forestofglory Oh yes, shovel talks 
I remember asking on twt whether such a thing actually exists irl in some cultures because it's so common in fic and I'd literally never heard of it before fic.
My pet peeve (nothing to do with reccing, I just roll my eyes) is people nodding on the phone and then realizing the other person can't see them. Another thing I'd have a hard time believing it ever really happens.
@thalassa @lookitmychicken I have definitely guestured at the phone only to realize after a moment that the other person can't see me!
@Forestofglory @lookitmychicken I can definitely see that happening for accompanying gestures that you just do subconsciously while you talk, but does it happen that you only nod or shrug without saying anything, while on the phone, and then realize you have to say something? That happens so often for lwj in fic.
@thalassa @Forestofglory
Hmm no I don't think I make gestures unless I'm also saying things.
I might nod to show I'm paying attention, but I'll usually make little paying-attention noises too.
So yeah I realise what you mean now. It's pretty weird.
@thalassa @Forestofglory @lookitmychicken it happens a lot with me on discord, including more elaborate gestures and acting things out, but I think that’s at least partially also bc I video chat a lot on discord so… I forget I’m not on camera atm.
(Not super relevant here 
it just amuses me.)
@glitchontwitch @Forestofglory @lookitmychicken That makes sense!
Oh the nodding on the phone thing is very real. I do stuff like that all the time. Caught myself physically pointing at my screen on a video call yesterday, when trying to explain something to a colleague.
What answers did you get when you asked about shovel talks? I've never encountered such a thing & I find them obnoxious in fic. I guess they're shorthand for "someone loves this character enough to want to warn their love interest not to hurt them"
@lookitmychicken @thalassa @Forestofglory it's partly a thing that we can blame on Joss Whedon
@Betty @lookitmychicken @thalassa @Forestofglory God, the list of things we can at least partly blame Joss Whedon for....
@Betty @thalassa @Forestofglory
Fuck, really?
I watched everything Joss Whedon made for about a decade, and didn't notice the shovel talks.
But at that time I tended to ignore or not notice "problematic" stuff in media, and just focused on what I liked about it.
So it took me a long time to realise that Joss Whedon seemed to have some shitty beliefs & behaviours that bled through into his work & made me stop stanning
@lookitmychicken @Betty @thalassa @Forestofglory
It's Willow to Riley: something about how she'll beat him to death with a shovel. "A vague disclaimer is no one's friend."
@lookitmychicken @Betty @thalassa @Forestofglory Sometimes my years in Buffy fandom come in useful.
@lirazel @Betty @thalassa @Forestofglory
Ohhhh that makes sense. And that's why it's called a *shovel* talk.
(I'd imagined it as something to do with using a shovel to dig a grave)
@lookitmychicken @lirazel @thalassa @Forestofglory I mean, I guess the shovel can be multipurpose
@lirazel @lookitmychicken @Betty @Forestofglory Interesting! So did the show invent the expression or also the concept? I find it quite patronising and wouldn't react in a friendly manner if I encountered it irl.
@lookitmychicken @thalassa @Forestofglory it's the origin of the term. But also a whole generation took it as their first fandom, and it gave us some interesting unexamined assumptions.
@thalassa @lookitmychicken @Forestofglory I definitely make faces, etc, on the phone, but I think it comes from being told to smile when I answer the phone, because the other person can hear it
@Betty @lookitmychicken @Forestofglory I'm not saying anyone should or does suppress their normal expressions and gestures when on the phone. I just have a hard time believing that you react in a non-verbal way on the phone and forget that the other person doesn't see that reaction. (And I absolutely roll the eyes occasioally because I can :p )